Please allow "v"iewing demon roster before deleting demons.

[RedPine]

Please allow "v"iewing my full roster before forcing me to delete my demons.

I can work around this a little bit. To view abilities, I can select "delete ability", but I have to be VERY careful to not actually click on anything. To view modifiers, I can select "fuse demon", but I can't actually see the modifiers unless the fusion is valid. Even then, there are a lot of things I can't do view, such as the EXP values & penaltie of my demons, or my current relic upgrades, or the possible abilities granted by a fusion, etc.

I can work around this by making a personal wiki for myself, but it would be nice to be able to see at-a-glance information without needing to personally memorize or archive everything first.

While we're at it, I'd like to be able to hit "F12" before deleting demons as well. ("?" already works, I just checked.)

[Ferret]

You can right click in almost any character list to see that character's full profile, including all page access, including the main character (even when he listed, but not an option, such as the initial Copy Ability display.) That should be able to give you full access to all the information you mentioned using the Copy Ability menu: I tested it with the things you mentioned specifically: EXP value/percentage, relic upgrades (via viewing the main character), abilities granted by modifiers.

Right-clicking also works on the modifiers in the initial display for Fuse Demons, by the by: this immediately brings up the abilities that modifier grants.

If that isn't safe and effective enough, I can investigate adding normal View to that menu, but there seems to be almost no difference other than Copy Ability doesn't show you HP / MaxHP at a glance (which I do not anticipate being a high value consideration for most stable overflows, and you can still get it for each individual demon.) and needing to right-click instead of left-click.

I'll also investigate getting F12 to work, but I will be the first to admit Demon's UI code is a bit touchy. It does help that F12 is somewhat similar in functionality to ? though, that at least makes it possible it can be done.

Thanks for the feedback.

[RedPine]

Right click works, and does everything I need. I just didn't realize it worked on everything, all the time, in all menus. Perhaps you could clarify that with a sentence or two in the 'controls' section of the help menu, or perhaps in a 'starting tips' section?

[RedPine]

And to answer your question, I have been enjoying Demon, but in a very masochistic way. I come and go very few months as the mood strikes me. Last time I couldn't get past level 4 or so reliably, but now I'm managing to reach level 6 or so. It probably doesn't help me that the meta changes a bit in the intervening months

That said, this is one of the few roguelikes I would actually want to conquer someday. Nethack is fun and polished (if you ignore the redundant keybinds), but recquires an insane level of statistics and metagaming to beat. Same goes for ADOM. CDDA started scaring away Dwarf Fortress veterans years ago. Infra Arcana is pure masochism, I only play that one when I want to embrace the horror. I wanted to like TOME but the classes feel to restrictive and railroaded. I love Qud, but I've basically beaten it already, and the UI is going through teething problems... you get the idea.

Demon, on the other hand, presents EVERYTHING at face value. You always know exactly what every creature can do, which abilities the fusions might grant, and their exact stats. Best of all, it is perfectly 'in character' for an aspiring summoner to have a Codex Daemonium that compiles all of the in-world metaknowledge. There are enough fixed branches to reward a *tiny* amount of planning and metaknowledge, but there's also plenty of rolling with the RNG when it comes to fusions and which demons you encounter.

TL;DR It is possible to conquer Demon without feeling like a filthy metagamer.

[Ferret]

I know a number of folks who play roguelikes as you describe: coming around to visit for a bit every few months, then wandering off for a bit, then coming back again later, etc. I've played some myself in the same manner, DCSS and ToME the main ones that come to mind for that.

You hit on something important I was trying to make sure was the case for Demon: no Wiki needed. It always made me frowny when playing DCSS, but even more so when trying to play Nethack, that I felt like I was just asking for death if I didn't look up Wiki info on each creature I encountered. If I didn't, I was often dying to simple ignorance rather than actual mistakes of choice or situations I didn't have the tools to handle. (Note: DCSS has actually gotten better about this as the years go by and now provides a fair amount of info in game itself. I'm referring here to more like 8 years ago when I was first starting on Demon and deciding how I wanted things to be.)

I'm glad you enjoy Demon, and I hope you continue to. There's a fair bit of content these days, so it should be able to keep you busy for awhile.