Restriction on Summoning Overleveled Demons

Discussions about possible changes and new features that might happen someday.

Re: Restriction on Summoning Overleveled Demons

Postby Seth » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:21 am

I like the idea of overleveled demons getting no EXP. Maybe combine that with some kind of soft-handicap, like giving them a chance to be insubordinate each turn based on level difference.

Alternatively, make recruitment difficulty scale with level relatively. IE demons that are higher level than you take more Approval and/or have less Patience and/or more expensive requests, turn-based captures take longer, fights are arguably naturally harder already, etc. That way there could be an element of big investment for big payoff when it comes to recruiting OOD demons.
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Re: Restriction on Summoning Overleveled Demons

Postby Ferret » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:42 am

Gaining no EXP I'd be fine with I think. :) Strikes a nice balance between letting you use the powerful buddy you earned and letting him carry you through too much of the game too easily. Not sure I can go for the insubordinate thing though: if I were playing, that would probably mark them as "unusable" for me, even if the chance was very, very low: Demon can be too darn deadly to put up with that extra risk just for a higher level ally!

Negotiation recruitment already scales with level, as do (by definition) any recruitments based on protecting or killing the would-be-ally. Haven't really done this for other types though, and probably should figure out a way to do so. Trick is keeping them possible while making them harder: though the types that don't currently scale well (kill other demons, chase me)) are usually the easier ones anyway so there should be room for that.

Edit: As an aside though, this particular topic's status is pretty near dead. I don't want to close it since I may need the mechanic again one day, but at the moment this is somewhat less concerning than it was before. Game difficulty has increased a bit in general since the original post, making the high level buddies a bit more of a "oh thank Blankie, some help!" and less of a "win mode activated."
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Re: Restriction on Summoning Overleveled Demons

Postby Bormoth » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:12 pm

My opinion is no it seems to me it would invalidate more options than it would fix though dunno. Like ghoul is lvl 9 when you meet it at lvl 2. And I wouldn't say they on power level higher than anything else you meet on floor 1 and 1/2. Recruiting it carries you a risk or disposal of rare item to lose other reasons to comming on this floor. And not it is like well stated demon to keep you to times when levels of monsters would even out with it. (Kitsune and Carbuncle would probably be hit too, though it seems Carbuncle is a bit too OP for his stat distribution fights too well for debuff croud control minion, with good starting skill set.)

I think stopping it's growth or slowing might help you to find its replacement, but I dunno it is not that critical, aside the fact one more situational demon to help with early game. I would like more powerful demons becoming weaker endgame(enough to justify replacement but still not complete trash), or midgame bloomers, or early weak but lategame strong variants(to promote sassing around with those monsters and giving you nerve to keep up, maybe by making them learn something special.

I would say more adressed approach is probably more warranted, like how much risk to go on recruitment at places you meet them, how likely, how big impact. Is corpse demon problem or it is base level is opressor, same with summoner monsters, do you forcesed to wait long enough or not. Same with some out of depth monsters are they worth of bronze offerings, maybe make those chance to fail on later game out of depth monsters, though dunno if it is worth at current level maybe it is more user friendly mechanic is to make those rare enough to feel them special, like maybe guaranteeing one early to even out and help with strategies, but then it becomes valuable asset to get both defensively and strategic.

Currency cost is invalidates first relic harsh, it seems main strategy of playing relic of crown is to have army based on situation and summon required creature to deal with situation at hand now paying price to do what you are supposed to do, makes this starter a bit worse. This crown already struggles with other things like fusing or learning early on relying on whatever you find on level maybe augmenting a bit your creatures, now you are on so thin supply that it becomes a chore.
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Re: Restriction on Summoning Overleveled Demons

Postby Ferret » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Yeah, I'm not too interested in doing this anymore. It doesn't seem to be as big an issue as I maybe thought it was originally... either because I was wrong, or other factors have changed. :)

The feedback's still appreciated though. :) It's always good to have more weight on the scales, so thanks. :D
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Re: Restriction on Summoning Overleveled Demons

Postby Bormoth » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:00 am

I wouldn't say even your leveling system is too overwhelming, 5 stats only if put in one stat might seem overwhelming, but only thing that might be concerning demons with out of depth abilities. The correct spec of traits and starter abilities solves problem. And if you are lucky enough to get fused demon with good ability better for you. Plus for some demons it is saving grace like for kitsunes or ghouls(more for ghouls never experimented with kitsunes they seem frail too but they sorta ranged spelcasters, if not high level they tend to die fastish, maybe it is because I never invested into ghoul, but they seem somehow frail.)
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