Nerfing Starting Packages

[Ferret]

Hi Bormoth, and welcome to the forum I hope you're enjoying Demon

Regardless of what I end up doing here, I'm hoping to avoid worthless abilities (entirely really, not just in starting packages ) Starter ones might go a little blander... but not by much I hope. Shocking Stab is perfectly in line with what I'd want for starter abilities, so no worries there. I don't starters to have to be replaced instantly... but I admit I also don't like them not being replaced for 50%+ of the game.

The system you propose is pretty interesting. But, definitely a big lift, as you say. I agree starting packages should probably matter a bit more than they do, but I still have some systems to add (including one, confusingly for this conversation, that I've also been calling Traits, but that isn't limited to just relics/player characters, and doesn't have the evolutions you describe.) that may impact it.

Evolution though... hmm.. I've got something to think about. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Bormoth]

The idea was not more from ability point but from class point, but it is ok as is now, just maybe like one way to do in far far future, plus it is possible to break in parts should muse strike. Evolution is part of it.
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And I assume traits are something like traits in siralim 2. If conditions are met, or for all x types, families. And such. Basically catch all demon defining passives that might activate in responce or just be, to justify any demon(or almost any) in your team. This was second I was questioning myself like good fit. Was a bit disheartened starter demons had no traits, thought big lose. But being in development seems good justification. Prefer situation where most demons if not all have some trait even if some would have bland like deal +x% damage with lightning abilities to lightning resistant(or weak) enemies. Siralim 2 had pretty insane and fun traits in general might be good cattle of inspiration. (there is wikipedia articles with monsters compendium to study if it is required, not necessarry to copy but how much the game might varried with traits.)

May I ask would the fused demon have traits based on their perk forming so called family of creatures with similar stats(like currently is) and similar in idea but different traits(like in siralim 2) or would you just preserve original trait. (Of cause I would say special perks(skill defining groups) should either be assigned to one of regular perks or just keep original trait as if demon was fused with same trait it had before.) Or based on generic group (aka lighting, body, mind, light and such to cut off similar but differently stated perks: frostsworn/frigid/.../ any other higher tier ice perk) Though probably it could take some time even more than player trait system (and make summoner start traits less of work and more interesting because now it is more overarching). Oh never mind it is probably too much just made my fantasy wander too much.
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Though evolution or ascention for some early demons could be good too because some of them seem to grow out of their cloth(maybe I am wrong and I just hitting hard period, zaltys still serves me well, but all starter melee row was replaced by new which seem better demons, maybe traits would be more of help. (like abbey lobber or Zar is not even consideration past floor 4 they die too fast, maybe if invested though I invested in some drain for Zar maybe I was wrong.) still pretty newbie here though, just running around anomaly which is entered from floor 5 if I am correct. Though I would limit it to better base stats maybe extra trait later, it would save time for work.

But I would say lets wait for how much traits would change the game, might be not necessary feature creep(always was crept out with demon fusion system in SMT, it just never worked and produced strange results and in general was confusing and made no sense, and was happy to see here it is simplier) at all, and traits would help to even things out, or make it more possible. After all who would care if x demon is bad, it stays alive it gives trait I need for my team to synergize and work. My build is weaker than y, so what I having fun with my own distinct build working in different way.

[Ferret]

Sorry for the slow responses on some of these, btw. I'm in semi-vacation mode, so while I read things quickly, I don't always respond right away.

Yeah, the simple fact is Demon's still in alpha development, according to my own schedule. It's definitely not done, or even close, comparing against what I want for it. There are lots of things that just aren't in yet. I get to things when I can, but there's always the pull between "polishing / fixing bugs in existing things" and "making new things" with a game that is both in development and available in the wild for people to play.

Not sure how fusion and Traits will work yet, to be honest. Traits is on the "sorta soon" list, but not fully designed out. Unfortunately, that same fact makes it difficult to answer many other specific questions about them either.