CIP: Returning Player

The tower awaits!

CIP: Returning Player

Postby edgefigaro » Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:00 pm

Returning intermediate player here. Years ago I played demon and I think I got to ~Tower 15. Reinstalled recently and I've made it to T10 since. I'd like to try to organize my thought processes here in this thread, and talk about stages/challenges the game progresses through.

Phase 0 Character Select: Pick a power you want to play with this run and pick a skill (personal preference) that does some damage.

Phase 1 Collect a full roster: There isn't much to be said about the open. There aren't really meaningful choices to make until your roster is full and you can transition to the next phase. Collect everything you see that is collectable. This phase usually ends by the end of T2.

At present, I consider the only notable pickup in this phase to be red cap or goblin for Dash. Dash on the Summoner lets you (1) Disengage from combat more cleanly/reliably and (2) chase down runner links. These are jobs that only the summoner can do, and abilities that help the summoner do it are rather rare. edit: Maybe swiftness can do the job well enough?? Dash makes melee summoners awkward due to the charge cooldown.

Code: Select all
Demon Party Dump File
Version 6/4/2021, Scoring Model: 5/31/2021
Dump file created at: 8/6/2021 9:07:50 AM


Summoner Sandman...
was chosen by the Eye of the Dragon,
selected Matter as their starting element,
has earned a score of 110,
is currently at Tower:2,
and is still alive!



--==== Main Character ====--

Name : Sandman
Level: 2
MaxHP: 38
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 10
Magic   : 10
Vitality: 10
Agility : 10
Cunning : 10

Resist: Matter
Weak  : Body

Abilities Known:
1) Fetter (Type: Matter, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to inflict Held, which reduces accuracy, evasion, and movement speed (can stack three times.))
2) Exhausting Touch (Type: Body, 15 SP. 70 Power attack. Reduces the target's SP by 20%.)
3) ------------
4) ------------
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------

Relic Upgrades:
Capacity Up III (Grants additional storage capacity for demon allies, allowing for a total of 6 at once.)
Enemy Sense (Shows the positions of roaming enemies on the map, even if you have not fully explored the level. Also warns you about summoner corpses whose Relics still contain active demons.)
Item Sense (Shows the positions of unattended items on the map. May also reveal additional items when searching corpses, or once a level is fully explored.)

Inventory:
1 Bolt glyph
3 Heal stone
1 Chakra stone
1 Pure gem

Brands:
Qu (Lv.1)
  Agility: +5
Sh (Lv.1)
  Cunning: +5
Ra-Sa-Ac (Lv.1)
  No passive abilities
  HP per Turn: +1.4% of MaxHP
  Speed: +14%

Current Credits: 1564

Codex Daemonium Completion
Shared Codex   : 45 / 188 (23% complete)



--==== Party Overview  ====--

Element      Users      Immune     Resistant  Normal     Weak       
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Slash        1          0          0          7*         0         
Impact       1          0          0          7*         0         
Pierce       1          0          0          6*         1         
Fire         0          0          3          3*         1         
Ice          0          0          1          2*         4         
Electricity  0          0          0          6*         1         
Body         1*         0          2          3          2*         
Mind         0          0          1          5*         1         
Matter       2*         0          1*         5          1         
Light        2          0          2          2*         3         
Dark         0          0          0          6*         1         

n : Number of party members counted.
* : Denotes the main character is included.



--==== Current Party ====--

Name : Homunculus
Level: 2
MaxHP: 35
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 11
Magic   : 11
Vitality: 11
Agility : 11
Cunning : 11

Resist: Body Mind
Weak  : Light Dark

Abilities Known:
1) Heavy Blow (Type: Impact, 5 SP. 70 Power attack.)
2) Draw Wounds (Type: Healing, 0 SP. 105 Power heal. Costs HP equal to the amount healed, but cannot kill the user. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (1))
3) Refresh (Type: Healing, 5 SP. Transfers up to 15 SP from the user to the target. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (1))
4) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Zaltys
Level: 2
MaxHP: 27
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 5
Magic   : 16
Vitality: 5
Agility : 18
Cunning : 11

Resist: Fire Light
Weak  : Ice

Abilities Known:
1) Emit Light (Type: Light, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Cannot miss.)
2) Lucky Aid (Type: Healing, 0 SP. One effect chosen at random for the target: Heal 50% HP (unaffected by your Magic bonus), restores 50 SP, or removes all negative status effects. Cooldown: Luck (3))
3) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
4) Judge's Mien (Type: Light, Passive. Your Light and Dark non-Aura attacks have a 100% chance to delay the next turn of targets whose last action was a damaging ability.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Zaltys
Level: 2
MaxHP: 27
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 5
Magic   : 16
Vitality: 5
Agility : 18
Cunning : 11

Resist: Fire Light
Weak  : Ice

Abilities Known:
1) Emit Light (Type: Light, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Cannot miss.)
2) Lucky Aid (Type: Healing, 0 SP. One effect chosen at random for the target: Heal 50% HP (unaffected by your Magic bonus), restores 50 SP, or removes all negative status effects. Cooldown: Luck (3))
3) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
4) Judge's Mien (Type: Light, Passive. Your Light and Dark non-Aura attacks have a 100% chance to delay the next turn of targets whose last action was a damaging ability.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Slime
Level: 2
MaxHP: 42
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 11
Magic   : 11
Vitality: 18
Agility : 4
Cunning : 11

Weak  : Pierce Ice Body Light Matter

Abilities Known:
1) Dissolving Touch (Type: Matter, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to inflict Melting, causing damage over time.)
2) Block Impact (Type: Defense, Passive. Provides a 33% chance to block Impact attacks.)
3) Reshape (Type: Healing, 0 SP. Removes all negative status effects, then applies a 130 Power heal. Free action. Cooldown: Endure (6))
4) Malleable (Type: Healing, Passive. Improves natural HP regeneration and healing received (including from the Regen status effect) by 25%. Does not affect healing received based on dealing damage.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Huo shu
Level: 2
MaxHP: 31
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 13
Magic   : 12
Vitality: 10
Agility : 9
Cunning : 11

Resist: Fire
Weak  : Ice

Abilities Known:
1) Fiery Claw (Type: Slash, 5 SP. 85 Power attack split between Slash and Fire. Has a 35% chance to Ignite the target, causing damage over a short duration.)
2) Bask (Type: Fire, 0 SP. Can be used when Muted. Must target an Ignited enemy. No effect on the target, but triggers a 60 Power heal on and restores 10 SP for the user. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (3))
3) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
4) Firestarter (Type: Fire, Passive. Increases your chance to apply Ignite by 50% of the original chance.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Zombie
Level: 1
MaxHP: 40
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 14
Magic   : 4
Vitality: 20
Agility : 7
Cunning : 5

Resist: Ice Body
Weak  : Fire Electricity Mind Light

Abilities Known:
1) Infectious Bite (Type: Pierce, 10 SP. 70 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to apply Infection, which prevents most HP and SP recovery.)
2) Flesheater (Type: Body, Reactive. Responds to an adjacent character's death by attacking them with a drain that heals you for 25% of their maximum HP.)
3) Gluttony (Type: Body, Passive. Provides a 50% increase in healing, SP restoration, and MaxHP bonuses from drains and abilities that heal based on damage dealt or restore SP based on SP drained.)
4) Infection Boost (Type: Body, Passive. Increases your chance to apply Infection by 50% of the original chance.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Tower 1.5 spawned, so headless is on the menu. Zombie + huo shu might be enough to get over the West pack.

I always wonder if reshape is worth maindecking on my summoner, and here I think the answer is yes. I picked up exhausting touch from a corpse, seems OK for an alternate damage type but doesn't really provide any direction. However, reshape + 5 magic stat points gives me offensive progression and defensive/utility progression as well, hopefully enough to get through tower 1.5 and then see where we are after.

Looking ahead to Phase 2: Melee Scrum. Early game combat is mostly dominated by melee bruisers. Ranged attacks haven't starting being common yet so combat generally devolves into a bunch of demons duking it out in close range. Notable pickups for this phase are headless, ogre, and zombie. The general plan is to put pounce/polar rush onto the melee goons and win the fights. Phase 2 will end when long range attacks become much more common and fights don't always look like melee scrums.
edgefigaro
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:10 pm

Re: CIP: Returning Player

Postby Ferret » Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:37 am

Hey, and welcome back. :D

I noticed your summoner is named Sandman. By chance are you the player who had that as a forum name here? If so, double welcome back. :D

Anyway I can't say I would argue too strongly with Phase 0 or Phase 1. I'm not entirely convinced it needs to be a damage ability you start with, though I can understand the reasoning. Assuming one of the 70 Power ones, you get a ~25% damage increase for your summoner, which definitely can help with the early timed kill capture mechanics. Heavy Slash's 85 Power is even better, giving a ~50% increase. That said, it isn't tough to find a 70 Power attack pretty quickly, whereas the non-damage abilities may be things you don't get access to for a decent bit longer (though all of them are relatively early abilities.)

I'd agree movement speed of some kind on the main character is very high value, especially if you are melee since getting in trouble in melee and surviving almost requires some sort of help, given how much closer you are to the danger. I also agree Swiftness may be best for this, since it lets you use a charge ability for even more mobility, whether it is Bull Rush or Pounce to get in quickly (leaving Swiftness to help you get out) or Dash for maximum flexibility of movement.

Reshape is probably worth picking up early in most games unless you really, really need the credits. Even the starting 10 Magic alone will keep it decent at healing for awhile, and even if it didn't heal a single HP, being able to clear most status effects once per battle as a free action is not a minor matter. This is particularly true early on when most of the nasty effects can't be spammed; it is a bit less useful later when even something like Charm or Panic may be reapplied multiple times a fight.

No argument really with Phase 2 either: ranged attacks are purposefully rare in the early game, because they can be incredibly brutal to face with an unprepared party that lacks some sort of counter, whether it be movement skills to close quickly, ranged attacks of their own, control spells to shut them down, healing to buy time for melees to engage, or what have you.

Thanks for the report, and good luck with the rest of your run. :)
User avatar
Ferret
 
Posts: 1749
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: CIP: Returning Player

Postby edgefigaro » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:06 am

There used to be a prolific DCSS forum regular called sandman who probably showed up here at some point. I named my char sandman after encountering a lilith and thinking about a sleep build.

That char just turned into a YASD on T1.5

Code: Select all
Demon Party Dump File
Version 6/4/2021, Scoring Model: 5/31/2021
Dump file created at: 8/9/2021 7:44:12 PM


Summoner Sandman...
was chosen by the Eye of the Dragon,
selected Matter as their starting element,
has earned a score of 276,
is currently at Tower:1 & 1/2,
and is quite dead!



--==== Main Character ====--

Name : Sandman
Level: 2
MaxHP: 38
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 10
Magic   : 15
Vitality: 10
Agility : 10
Cunning : 10

Resist: Matter
Weak  : Body

Abilities Known:
1) Fetter (Type: Matter, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to inflict Held, which reduces accuracy, evasion, and movement speed (can stack three times.))
2) Exhausting Touch (Type: Body, 15 SP. 70 Power attack. Reduces the target's SP by 20%.)
3) Reshape (Type: Healing, 0 SP. Removes all negative status effects, then applies a 130 Power heal. Free action. Cooldown: Endure (6))
4) Dash (Type: None, 20 SP. Move to the target position instantly. This is a fast action: it only takes half the time most actions do. Cooldown: Charge (8))
5) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
6) Focus (Type: Buff, 10 SP. Improves accuracy by 25%.)
7) ------------
8) ------------

Relic Upgrades:
Capacity Up III (Grants additional storage capacity for demon allies, allowing for a total of 6 at once.)
Enemy Sense (Shows the positions of roaming enemies on the map, even if you have not fully explored the level. Also warns you about summoner corpses whose Relics still contain active demons.)
Item Sense (Shows the positions of unattended items on the map. May also reveal additional items when searching corpses, or once a level is fully explored.)

Inventory:
1 Bolt glyph
3 Heal stone
3 Chakra stone
1 Pure gem
1 Frost glyph

Brands:
Qu (Lv.1)
  Agility: +5
Sh (Lv.1)
  Cunning: +5
Ra-Sa-Ac (Lv.1)
  No passive abilities
  HP per Turn: +1.4% of MaxHP
  Speed: +14%
Du-Qu-Ex (Lv.2)
  Max SP: -35
  Agility: +5
  Vitality: +5
Ra (Lv.2)
  Speed: +10%

Current Credits: 1791

Codex Daemonium Completion
Shared Codex   : 45 / 188 (23% complete)



--==== Party Overview  ====--

Element      Users      Immune     Resistant  Normal     Weak       
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Slash        3          0          0          7*         0         
Impact       2          0          0          7*         0         
Pierce       1          0          0          6*         1         
Fire         0          0          2          4*         1         
Ice          0          0          1          3*         3         
Electricity  0          0          0          5*         2         
Body         1*         0          3          2          2*         
Mind         0          0          1          5*         1         
Matter       2*         0          1*         5          1         
Light        1          0          1          2*         4         
Dark         0          0          0          6*         1         

n : Number of party members counted.
* : Denotes the main character is included.



--==== Current Party ====--

Name : Homunculus
Level: 2
MaxHP: 35
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 11
Magic   : 11
Vitality: 11
Agility : 11
Cunning : 11

Resist: Body Mind
Weak  : Light Dark

Abilities Known:
1) Heavy Blow (Type: Impact, 5 SP. 70 Power attack.)
2) Draw Wounds (Type: Healing, 0 SP. 105 Power heal. Costs HP equal to the amount healed, but cannot kill the user. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (1))
3) Refresh (Type: Healing, 5 SP. Transfers up to 15 SP from the user to the target. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (1))
4) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Zaltys
Level: 2
MaxHP: 27
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 5
Magic   : 16
Vitality: 5
Agility : 18
Cunning : 11

Resist: Fire Light
Weak  : Ice

Abilities Known:
1) Emit Light (Type: Light, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Cannot miss.)
2) Lucky Aid (Type: Healing, 0 SP. One effect chosen at random for the target: Heal 50% HP (unaffected by your Magic bonus), restores 50 SP, or removes all negative status effects. Cooldown: Luck (3))
3) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
4) Judge's Mien (Type: Light, Passive. Your Light and Dark non-Aura attacks have a 100% chance to delay the next turn of targets whose last action was a damaging ability.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Slime
Level: 2
MaxHP: 42
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 11
Magic   : 11
Vitality: 18
Agility : 4
Cunning : 11

Weak  : Pierce Ice Body Light Matter

Abilities Known:
1) Dissolving Touch (Type: Matter, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to inflict Melting, causing damage over time.)
2) Block Impact (Type: Defense, Passive. Provides a 33% chance to block Impact attacks.)
3) Reshape (Type: Healing, 0 SP. Removes all negative status effects, then applies a 130 Power heal. Free action. Cooldown: Endure (6))
4) Malleable (Type: Healing, Passive. Improves natural HP regeneration and healing received (including from the Regen status effect) by 25%. Does not affect healing received based on dealing damage.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Huo shu
Level: 2
MaxHP: 31
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 13
Magic   : 12
Vitality: 10
Agility : 9
Cunning : 11

Resist: Fire
Weak  : Ice

Abilities Known:
1) Fiery Claw (Type: Slash, 5 SP. 85 Power attack split between Slash and Fire. Has a 35% chance to Ignite the target, causing damage over a short duration.)
2) Bask (Type: Fire, 0 SP. Can be used when Muted. Must target an Ignited enemy. No effect on the target, but triggers a 60 Power heal on and restores 10 SP for the user. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (3))
3) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
4) Firestarter (Type: Fire, Passive. Increases your chance to apply Ignite by 50% of the original chance.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Zombie
Level: 2
MaxHP: 45
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 16
Magic   : 4
Vitality: 23
Agility : 7
Cunning : 5

Resist: Ice Body
Weak  : Fire Electricity Mind Light

Abilities Known:
1) Infectious Bite (Type: Pierce, 10 SP. 70 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to apply Infection, which prevents most HP and SP recovery.)
2) Flesheater (Type: Body, Reactive. Responds to an adjacent character's death by attacking them with a drain that heals you for 25% of their maximum HP.)
3) Gluttony (Type: Body, Passive. Provides a 50% increase in healing, SP restoration, and MaxHP bonuses from drains and abilities that heal based on damage dealt or restore SP based on SP drained.)
4) Infection Boost (Type: Body, Passive. Increases your chance to apply Infection by 50% of the original chance.)
5) Pounce (Type: Slash, 15 SP. Must target a character. Leap to the target with a 70 Power attack. Inflicts Stun, causing the target to miss their next turn. Cooldown: Charge (6))
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Red cap
Level: 2
MaxHP: 32
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 17
Magic   : 6
Vitality: 11
Agility : 9
Cunning : 12

Resist: Body
Weak  : Electricity Light

Abilities Known:
1) Feral Claw (Type: Slash, 5 SP. 70 Power attack.)
2) Throw Rock (Type: Impact, 5 SP. 70 Power attack. Cooldown: Luck (3))
3) Intent (Type: Buff, 5 SP. Briefly improves accuracy by 25%. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (3))
4) Dash (Type: None, 20 SP. Move to the target position instantly. This is a fast action: it only takes half the time most actions do. Cooldown: Charge (8))
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------



--==== Recent Messages ====--

 You summon your zombie!
 The chindi blinks towards your zombie.
 Your zombie stumbles.
 The chindi misses your zombie.
 The chindi blinks towards your zombie.
 Your zombie staggers.
 The chindi misses your zaltys.
 The chindi blinks towards your zombie.
 Your zombie staggers badly!
 The chindi touches your zaltys for 6.
 Your zaltys is infected!
 Your zaltys looks weaker!
 Your zaltys smites the chindi for 4.
 It's super effective! The chindi stumbles.
 Your slime touches the chindi for 4.
 The chindi touches your slime for 8.
 It's super effective! Your slime is infected!
 Using Fetter...
 Aim within the possible target area using
 movement keys. Press Enter to execute, Escape to
 cancel.
 You grasp the chindi for 4.
 The chindi touches you for 7.
 It's super effective! You are infected!
 You feel weaker!
 The chindi touches your slime for 7.
 It's super effective!
 Your zaltys smites the chindi for 4.
 It's super effective! The chindi stumbles.
 The chindi touches your slime for 7.
 It's super effective!
 Your slime will be infected longer!
 Your slime reshapes itself.
 Your slime is no longer infected.
 Your slime is healed for 10.
 Your slime touches the chindi for 4.
 The chindi begins to melt!
 Using Dash...
 Aim within the possible target area using
 movement keys. Press Enter to execute, Escape to
 cancel.
 Nevermind then.
 Using Focus...
 Aim within the possible target area using
 movement keys. Press Enter to execute, Escape to
 cancel.
 You gesture at your zombie.
 Your zombie looks more accurate!
 The chindi touches your zaltys for 6.
 Your zaltys will be infected longer!
 Your zaltys will be weaker longer!
 Your zaltys gestures at itself.
 Your zaltys' infection prevents the healing.
 The chindi touches your slime for 7.
 It's super effective! Your slime is infected!
 Your slime looks weaker!
 The chindi touches your slime for 7.
 It's super effective!
 Your zombie bites the chindi for 2.
 It isn't very effective.
 One of your allies is in danger!
 Using Dismiss...
 You unsummon your zaltys!
 Your slime touches the chindi for 2.
 The chindi begins to melt!
 The chindi touches you for 7.
 It's super effective!
 You will be infected longer!
 You feel like you will be weaker longer!
 The chindi touches your slime for 7.
 It's super effective!
 Your slime will be infected longer!
 Your slime will be weaker longer!
 The chindi touches your slime for 7.
 It's super effective!
 Need help? Press '?' or F1 to access the game
 manual.
 Using Dismiss...
 You unsummon your slime!
 The chindi touches you for 7.
 It's super effective!
 You will be infected longer!
 You feel like you will be weaker longer!
 Your zombie misses the chindi.
 The chindi blinks towards you.
 You stagger.
 The chindi touches you for 7.
 It's super effective!
 You will be infected longer!
 The chindi blinks towards you.
 You stagger badly!
 The chindi hits you for 3.
 The chindi touches you for 7.
 It's super effective!
 Your relic struggles to keep you alive!
 You will be infected longer!
 The chindi eliminates you for 11.
 Your relic struggles to keep you alive!
 The chindi eliminates you for 10.
 You die...



--==== Recently Slain Allies ====--

Name : Zaltys
Level: 2
MaxHP: 27
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 5
Magic   : 16
Vitality: 5
Agility : 18
Cunning : 11

Resist: Fire Light
Weak  : Ice

Abilities Known:
1) Emit Light (Type: Light, 5 SP. 55 Power attack. Cannot miss.)
2) Lucky Aid (Type: Healing, 0 SP. One effect chosen at random for the target: Heal 50% HP (unaffected by your Magic bonus), restores 50 SP, or removes all negative status effects. Cooldown: Luck (3))
3) Low Profile (Type: Defense, Passive. Always dodge projectiles fired by allies unless directly targeted.)
4) Judge's Mien (Type: Light, Passive. Your Light and Dark non-Aura attacks have a 100% chance to delay the next turn of targets whose last action was a damaging ability.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Jiang shi
Level: 2
MaxHP: 36
MaxSP: 65

Strength: 13
Magic   : 5
Vitality: 18
Agility : 20
Cunning : 9

Resist: Body Dark
Weak  : Fire Electricity Light

Soul Brand:
Du-Qu-Ex (Lv.2)
  Max SP: -35
  Agility: +5
  Vitality: +5

Abilities Known:
1) Leech Bite (Type: Pierce, 10 SP. 70 Power attack. Heals the user for 50% of the damage dealt (affected by Body resistance).)
2) Pounce (Type: Slash, 15 SP. Must target a character. Leap to the target with a 70 Power attack. Inflicts Stun, causing the target to miss their next turn. Cooldown: Charge (6))
3) Souleater (Type: Dark, Reactive. Responds to a visible character's death by attacking them with a drain that heals you for 10% of their maximum HP.)
4) Bloodthirst (Type: Body, Passive. Heals you for 25% of the damage you deal with Slash, Impact, or Pierce abilities (affected by Body resistance). Does not work with MaxHP damage.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------




I was feeling pretty good about the run, wasn't too worried about anything, had just picked up pounce for my zombie. Engage a chindi pack and get ~80% no drain to 0'd while I have a zombie up, which has never happened before.

Incidentally this is why I don't care as much for melee summoners as a newer player. Melee summoners feel strong, but they are a bit less strong than they feel and that creates really awkward situations. Specifically, you charge into a pack and blow it up and feel strong and then you charge into a pack and blow it up and feel strong and then you charge into a pack and you shouldn't have charged into the pack and all of a sudden you are all the way into the fight.

Its not that I think melee summoners are weak. I think if you are a good player, you just don't charge that dangerous pack, but as a not-good player that gets you killed.

In this case, not necessarily directly related to being melee (though i am, its also really early so whatever), I don't have to engage this chindi pack. I never should have taken the fight. I could have cleared the floor and gotten level 3 and headless before engaging. As it is, I'm just happily trading with these chindis and start to rotate my line out and not worried much about what is happening then I've been nuked. Lesson learned.
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Re: CIP: Returning Player

Postby Ferret » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:13 pm

Ah, okay. :) I didn't realize/remember there was a Sandman elsewhere, but yeah, he definitely played DCSS too so it was probably the same one. Well, no worries, still happy to welcome you back :D

Risk assessment is definitely critical for melee summoners, and it can be easy to misjudge when you're still learning or re-learning the game. It may be worthwhile to cheat it a little if your build permits and carry a single ranged attack. If you feel at all uncertain about matters, hang back and throw the ranged attack a couple of rounds and see if you can get a better idea how things are going to go if you dive in. Worst case, you've softened up the enemy a bit. Best case, seeing what happened during those turns may help you decide if it's safe to pounce or not. Since you'd only be using the attack for a turn or two, it shouldn't become an issue you need SP management to solve in the way a full ranged character often does.

The other answer may be to go heavy on healing in your allies, even if it isn't their primary role. Early on you can have surprisingly good results just from copying Draw Wounds all over the place. It costs HP to use, but it won't disrupt whatever a demon's normal role is for the most part. Demons are obsessive about healing the summoner, so they will often be able to bail you out of anything but a complete mismatch. This can get more dangerous later in the game though as enemies get more ranged attacks and start to be able to better capitalize on non-engaged allies weakening themselves with Draw Wounds. It also suffers against enemies with strong multi-target attack potential.
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Re: CIP: Returning Player

Postby Geoffreylikespie » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:46 am

Welcome back! :D

I personally have found the non-offensive starting abilities to be very helpful. It does cut down on damage, so I'll die on the first floor a good deal of the time, but since it's still the first floor I haven't really lost much. Where I run into issue with them is that it's so much to keep track of. Deciding who to heal and who to buff and when to do it and when to attack has me exhausted after a couple hours, and I like to play my runs of Demon in one session (not sure that's a good thing… it's kept me up very late sometimes!)
I would recommend trying it out a few times. As Ferret said it's hard to compete with the high-level healing ability offered. Usually I like to just run around and kill things while my Gandayah or Nero does all the healing, but it's still a really powerful spell for early on.

I've found swiftness useful for early-game chase missions, but by the time I run into Gremlins I already can't keep up anymore. I even lost a pretty good run once because I tried to keep up with an over-leveled Demon encounter in Anomaly, getting separated from my party and then completely destroyed by a pack Demons the one is was chasing ran me into (not saying which Demon I was chasing though, in case it's spoilers for you :p)

I'm curious: Would you consider Anomaly to be the end of Phase 2 or the beginning of Phase 3? Fotia and Aithir packs can be pretty brutal, but in my experience it's not quite as bad as the flocks of Tuofei and Bmola beyond floor 5. Maybe I just pick fire too often though xD
Everybody gangsta til Mordecai pulls out the massacre
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