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So I finally beat the game and questions

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:20 am
by Paul
Hey, loved your game, played it on and off for a year. Finally beat it last friday, using a serious of abilities and build I minmaxed to perfection... also helped by some Jotun I got lucky running into and 2 bronze offerings. I have a few questions

1) What changes on a new cycle? Started cycle 2 and it seems the same so far. Do you get any bonuses or does anything happen to make things tougher?

2) Is it me or is the brand update a bit easier overall, since the player is better at using brands than the ai? Is this intended? Though I guess having played for so many hours I did start to learn its quirks, and I did have a lot of things go my way (getting Vikhor to soul armour with and running into a view nice demons, especially the Jotun i met in Ninishaki's sanctum). Which versions of the game would you say are the hardest? Is it worth trying them? I started with the 9.30.18 one, which does seem tougher after the early game (and I do think the guarding cry I get from Homunculous helps me a lot). Are there any worth playing now? I'm a little curious about the training point mechanic, it sounds fun.

3) What relics do you currently consider easiest or hardest or best or worse? Crown of Glory feels awesome to me, even if it doesn't do much to help till you have a full party. Though I notice a lot of winning builds have Transpose soul (mine included), and I did use Orb to relearn the game when you made the early game tougher.

4) Do you consider balance or specialised stat builds to be stronger? Since I run a mostly healing based build, i used to dump everything into magic but the game before my winning I got dog(elephant?) piled by 4 Yowi and killed before I could doing anything, so last run through i put a enough intro strength to not get insta gibbed and the rest into magic, but I notice a lot of wraiths use all rounder builds

5) Why don't you allow winning runs to add there scores to the board before they die? I found it kinda disappointing just to be greeted with a You Win then the game to function like I had lost, only without being able to record my score

6) How long back have you kept relic wraiths in previous versions? I know the last 2 versions before the brand still has wraiths from online players

7) Is Homuclous and Reprobus's modifier the only way to obtain Guarding Cry? it seems like an incredibly good skill to me. Im not aware of it being under other modifiers (sans maybe the upgraded version of Blessed, but im not aware of any demons having that modifier as a default) or naturally known by any demon

Re: So I finally beat the game and questions

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:01 am
by Ferret
Hey Paul :D Welcome to the forum, and congrats on beating the game. :)

Here's the answers to your questions:

1 and 5) New Cycles don't bring any gameplay changes, but do allow you to keep running up your score (this is why you don't get a score entry when you finish a game: you aren't necessarily done yet!)

2) Huh. I've never really thought about what the hardest version is. :D I'm not sure I'd know the answer to that. I might agree the Brand build may be a bit easier because the AI isn't always as good at picking them as a human might be, but I'm not sure if it's a major difference on not based on the feedback and reports I've gotten. As far as whether they're worth trying, for the most part, they just have less features and content: the only two major revamps I've done were the Training Point change and the very recent Character Creation change: both changes were designed to in part make the game more challenging, and I think both did, so I'm not sure you'd find a harder one among them.

3) Titan Fist may be the hardest simply because its abilities aren't necessarily of any use right off the bat. Easiest might actually be Crown simply because even if you fill your party up with nonsense, that's still 2 more demons you have before you hit the dreaded "entire party window is blinking red HP" scenario, and this is an advantage even the newest player gets full benefit from, whereas many of the other Relics, while their upgrades may be more useful, they also require more work and planning to get the benefit of them. (Granted, all of this will likely be changing in the Upgrade revamp coming in the next build.)

4) I generally consider it wise to put at least 1 point a level into Vitality no matter what. If you have any serious interest in melee, there should probably be a 2nd and maybe even 3rd point per level going into Strength and/or Vitality. (If that sounds obvious, remember Magic-based melee builds can be a thing. :D ) I consider 3/level the most you should probably put into any stat unless you're doing a specific, wacky build and know what you're going for. I will say one thing to note about Wraiths is that I do some mild tweaking of Wraiths between when they die and when they appear in another player's game: one of those tweaks is redistributing stats if they went crazy in one stat. So that may be throwing off your data a bit, though I will say the adjustment is minor and requires extreme distributions to kick in (i.e.: more than 3/level to trigger, and it only adjusts as needed to bring the offending stat back down below that.)

5) See answer to 1.

6) Relic Wraiths have about a 50/50 chance of being compatible with a new update on average, so usually a given version only has its own wraiths, or its + the previous version's. (The next update will require a wipe due to the Upgrade change, while we're on the topic.)

7) The 2nd Tier "Buff" modifier, Imbued, can also grant Guarding Cry... but yeah, that may only be a randomly available modifier as you suggest, I'd have to check to see if anything actually has Imbued inherently. It does not exist on any demons as a default ability, so these three modifiers are the only way to get it. :) Given how powerful it is, I can live with it being a rare goodie. :D

Lemme know if you have any other questions, and I'm glad you've been enjoying the game. :D

Re: So I finally beat the game and questions

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:08 pm
by Paul
Thanks for replying and thanks for making a great game.

And yeah I always thought Crown was awesome. I did love all magic builds, but I notice they do leave me very vulnerable, which is why im tempering them, though im wondering if low vitality is less of a problem if i stay out combat (and specifically took the gremlins running skill to get away if combat came to me or an encounter was going sideways).

I can see why you made Guarding Cry rare.

And after some google fu i found a version of the game with training points, it was fun but I can see how unrefined it is compared to modern Demon, though was nice novelty. Were Training Points inspired by the Demon Whisper system in smt4?

What are some builds you find fun to play? I used to make a sterotypical jrpg wizard, with a bunch of attack spells and a basic healing spell, though these days I almost exclusively run my "white mage" esque build

Re: So I finally beat the game and questions

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:46 am
by Ferret
I was playing SMT4 back at that time if I remember right, so it's likely that was some of the idea. But really I just wanted to do literally anything but random ability inheritance. I don't mind granting *new* random abilities, but it was always frustrating to have to reroll... so... many... times... trying to keep a good "bloodline" going. Granted, it's OP to just give that away for free (which is why Copy Ability still costs Credits), but it's better to be honest and charge an in-game price for it than to leave it subject to how long someone is willing to hit the cancel->preview buttons. :D (Atlus would seem to agree with me, I think it was about the same time... maybe even SMT4 itself, I don't recall for sure... that they finally left that particular mechanic behind too.)

One of my favorite builds is the "Dark Healer": Mix of Magic and Vitality for stats, uses (non-Touch, so you don't need Agility) Dark abilities to drain MaxHP from enemies and relies on a combo of Draw Wounds and normal healing for healing. The elevated MaxHP gives you extra tankiness when you're being targeted, and when you're not, it lets you use Draw Wounds more often. Don't forget fun passives like Oppressor, which reduces damage taken from enemies with lower HP. :) The main "weakness" of the build is that you obviously some demons Resist/Immune Dark, but you can always fall back on your healing to support your team in such a circumstance, or pick up some other elemental magic. A secondary problem can be keeping your SP intact, but there are many ways to solve that too.