Matter Build Testing

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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby oneeyedjoe » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:55 pm

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Yeaaa not a smart move there, Unicorn, charming a target that about to turn to stone when there are another 4 Gorgons to chose from.
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby Ferret » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:14 pm

Added to the list. :D Thanks. :D
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby Gaswafers » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:19 am

Do demons properly consider Held when deciding which of their attacks would be most appropriate to use? I didn't work out the exact math, but I found it weird that level 1 held wasn't good enough for Artemis to choose arc needle over perfect shot against that target.
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby Ferret » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:38 am

Yes, anything that reduces stats is automatically accounted for by the AI.

That said, even with -33% evasion, a 50% normal hit rate ability is still somewhat iffy, clocking in around 60-70% or so assuming typical-ish Agility on the defender's part. Held 2 would probably be enough though, at that point, the rate is probably solidly 80+, so sure shot isn't helping so much anymore.

Additionally, if it was a potential killing blow, the AI will place higher value than normal on certainty.
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby oneeyedjoe » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:27 am

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Wrong sanctum there buddy
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby Ferret » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:10 pm

Fixed in next build. :D Thanks!
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby oneeyedjoe » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:42 pm

There seem to be some inconsistencies in matter modifiers. Tier 2 doesn't have 85 power beam, tier 3 has wrap up from tier 1, some vapors can be used in all modifiers, corrosive and toxic for example (right now they are exclusive to lower tiers). Stone touch seems to be a bit off with 70 power and 50% to petrify, seeing how touches are usually 15% lower than direct debuffs. Violent modifier doesn't have relieving cut. Not sure if tier 1 impact modifier needs Crush because there are 0 petrifying spells in tier 1 territory and without them Crush is just more expensive Clobber. Probably forgetting something else about modifiers.
I fused Medusa onto Unicorn in 2 different runs and both times I got same skills - Stone and Alluring gaze. Might be silly rng, might be a bug.
This probably will be my last report for a while, I won't have much - if any - spare time in march.
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby wizzzargh » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:35 am

Died to Mordecai and Turdak in runs that didn't really expand my knowledge of Matter so I didn't mention em.

This run though, was pretty good. Got to Ninkasi's sanctum and died to her pack after nearly dying to Kuchisake and Oni panic. Ninkasi's pack killed me because the Hulking modifier gave everyone Knockout, which turned out to be really awful. My demons got knocked out and then whoever was awake got stunned and beaten to death in a massive focus fire, and every time I used a Pure Stone whoever I woke up got knocked out again and I couldn't flee cause of Bull Rush. It was bad, real bad. Plus my Kuchisake decided to Haunt Ninkasi instead of Madness Glare the 3 brutes beating my face in, which was disappointing when the ENEMY AI was doing so well...

Early on I had a Chthonic Dipsas to go with my Whirling One and that was nice until Turdak killed Chthonic one. He seems a little buffer than I remember... or maybe it was the acheri doing something I forgot. Mordecai seems even rougher than I remember too- I walked straight for a portal 5 steps away upon seeing him and still barely made it.

I was just a wraith touch build for a while (gluttony and oppressor really make the difference between gaining maxHP in melee and having it all get beaten back down). Eventually though I stumbled upon Acid Wash and Materia Siphon and boy, does that hit hard for 15 mana, autohit, lifedrain, and decent range. Still, requires some setup so I wouldn't call it overpowered necessarily, especially since matter resistance is fairly common. I got Transpose Soul at level 15 and ate a Nokken for Stone and planned to get Crumble once I returned from Ninkasi's Sanctum to get credits and a second Nokken, but alas. I also never managed to actually land Stone.

Had a good encounter with Profane Carbuncle/Stymphalian Bird combo who knew Cull and Consume Vigor. Blind, poison, max Hp damage, it was dreadful.

I used a Peace Offering to try again to recruit a level 9 Oni from a vomitface ghost in Anomaly and got it the second time.
I managed to recruit lots of mandrakes. Once you know what's coming it's not so bad.

I walked around with nero healer ruhin buffer/debuffer+ melee demon of choice for a while, which was an alright setup that woulda worked better with quick dismiss.
I mean everything works better with quick dismiss, who am i kidding.
I took pictures of the wrong demons so code tags is all you get.
Code: Select all
Demon Party Dump File
Version 2/15/2018, Scoring Model: 2/14/2018
Dump file created at: 2/27/2018 11:05:15 PM


Summoner WrithingDark...
was chosen by the Hand of the Dead,
selected Dark and Healing as their starting elements,
has earned a score of 19650,
is currently at Ninkasi's Sanctum,
and is quite dead!



--==== Main Character ====--

Name : WrithingDark
Level: 18
MaxHP: 110
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 4
Magic   : 48
Vitality: 40
Agility : 20
Cunning : 33

Resist: Dark
Weak  : Light

Abilities Known:
1) Wraith Touch (Type: Dark, 15 SP. 70 Power attack, split between HP and MaxHP damage. 66% of the MaxHP damage is drained to the user as bonus MaxHP.)
2) Acid Wash (Type: Matter, 15 SP. 85% chance to inflict Melting, causing damage over time.)
3) Materia Siphon (Type: Matter, 15 SP. 40 Power attack, +45 Power if the target is Melting. Heals the user for 50% of the damage dealt. Cannot miss.)
4) Quelling Cry (Type: Debuff, 20 SP. 85% chance to briefly reduce offense by 20% for enemies. Cooldown: Presence (3))
5) Stone (Type: Matter, 30 SP. 50% chance to inflict Harden, which quickly turns the target to Stone.)
6) Oppressor (Type: Dark, Passive. Increases defense by 25% against enemies with lower HP. (Bonus is affected by Dark resistance.))
7) Vigorous (Type: None, Passive. Increases SP regeneration by 50%.)
8) Gluttony (Type: Body, Passive. Provides a 50% increase in healing, SP restoration, and MaxHP bonuses from drains and abilities that heal based on damage dealt or restore SP based on SP drained.)

Relic Upgrades:
Consume (Delete Demon now restores your HP and SP based on the number of levels the demon has gained (more levels = stronger effect).)
Recycle (Delete Demon now grants Credits based on the number of levels the demon has gained (more levels = more Credits).)
Enemy Lure (Unlocks the Enemy Lure transmutation, which allows you to reveal hidden demons in your surroundings. Some demons are very hard to find without this technique, but using it is not without risk...)
Transpose Soul (Unlocks the Transpose Soul transmutation, which lets you sacrifice a demon to choose and learn one of the bonus abilities from the modifier it would pass if used with Fuse Demons.)

Inventory:
1 Zephyr card
4 Pain glyph
3 Calm card
2 Venom rune
1 Trouble chime
3 Heal gem
7 Heal stone
1 Tempest rune
2 Peace offering
2 Pure stone
1 Frost glyph
2 Chakra gem
1 Flame glyph
1 Magic map
1 Blizzard rune
1 Mirror chime
2 Ghost chime

Current Credits: 3685

Codex Daemonium Completion
Personal Codex : 47 / 153 (30% complete)



--==== Party Overview  ====--

Element      Users      Immune     Resistant  Normal     Weak       
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Slash        2          0          0          6*         0         
Impact       1          0          0          6*         0         
Pierce       0          0          0          6*         0         
Fire         1          0          2          4*         0         
Ice          0          0          2          3*         1         
Electricity  1          0          1          2*         3         
Body         0          2          1          2*         1         
Mind         2          1          0          5*         0         
Light        1          0          1          1          4*         
Dark         2*         0          2*         3          1         

n : Number of party members counted.
* : Denotes the main character is included.



--==== Current Party ====--

Name : Nero
Level: 15
MaxHP: 80
MaxSP: 125

Strength: 20
Magic   : 35
Vitality: 35
Agility : 20
Cunning : 15

Resist: Fire Ice
Weak  : Body Light Dark Matter

Abilities Known:
1) Affection (Type: Healing, 25 SP. 60-130 Power heal, based on your remaining HP (more HP = higher Power).)
2) Regenerate (Type: Healing, 25 SP. Bestows Regeneration, restoring health over time.)
3) Cleanse (Type: Healing, 15 SP. Removes Poison, Infection, and Paralysis.)
4) Lifeweaver (Type: Healing, Passive. Reduces the SP cost of Healing abilities by 5, to a minimum of 0.)
5) Tireless (Type: None, Passive. Increases MaxSP by 25.)
6) Lucky Aid (Type: Healing, 0 SP. One effect chosen at random for the target: Heal 50% HP (unaffected by your Magic bonus), restores 50 SP, or removes all negative status effects. Cooldown: Luck (3))
7) Mending (Type: Healing, 20 SP. Cannot be used on Mended targets or enemies. 150 Power heal. Applies Mended.)
8) Meditate (Type: Healing, 0 SP. Restores 10 SP. Cooldown: Cantrip (0))


Name : Sped Snek (Whirling Dipsas)
Level: 18
MaxHP: 71
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 26
Magic   : 16
Vitality: 18
Agility : 52
Cunning : 28

Resist: Electricity
Weak  : Ice Matter

Abilities Known:
1) Swiftness (Type: None, Passive. Reduces the turn cost of movement and movement abilities by 20%.)
2) Spin Slash (Type: Slash, 15 SP. 70 Power attack. Also considered a movement ability.)
3) Evade Step (Type: Defense, Passive. Gain a 25% chance to dodge attacks when your last action was movement or a movement ability.)
4) Parry (Type: Defense, Passive. Provides a 33% chance to parry Melee and Direct range Slash, Impact, and Pierce abilities if your last used ability was also such.)
5) Wide Shock (Type: Electricity, 15 SP. 40 Power attack. Has a 10% chance to inflict Shock, causing the targets to miss their next turn. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (3))
6) Storm Veil (Type: Electricity, Reactive. Responds to damage dealt to you by adjacent characters with a 20 Power attack that has a 5% chance to Shock the target, causing the target to miss their next turn. Cannot miss.)
7) Glacial Shell (Type: Ice, Passive. Provides a 100% chance to block Slash, Impact, Pierce, Fire, Electricity, and Ice attacks. This works even when Stunned, Paralyzed, etc. Triggers a Cold cooldown when activated. Cooldown: Cold (4))
8) Leadership (Type: Buff, Passive. Accelerates the next turn of a nearby ally when you use Slash, Impact, or Pierce abilities to deal damage to one or more characters.)


Name : SonVomitface (Holy Oni)
Level: 18
MaxHP: 77
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 39
Magic   : 22
Vitality: 29
Agility : 18
Cunning : 32

Resist: Fire Body Light Dark Matter
Weak  : Electricity

Abilities Known:
1) Shellbreaker (Type: Impact, 10 SP. 70 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to reduce defense by 20%.)
2) Double Impact (Type: Impact, 15 SP. 85 Power attack split between two Impact attacks.)
3) Juggernaut (Type: Defense, Passive. When your last action was movement or a movement ability, you have 25% improved defense and your next turn comes faster when damaged by enemies (excluding status effects and reactions).)
4) Heavyhanded (Type: Mind, Passive. Provides a 20% chance for your Slash, Impact, and Pierce attacks to apply Stun, causing the target to miss their next turn.)
5) Bloodthirst (Type: Body, Passive. Heals you for 25% of the damage you deal with Slash, Impact, or Pierce abilities (affected by Body resistance).)
6) Gluttony (Type: Body, Passive. Provides a 50% increase in healing, SP restoration, and MaxHP bonuses from drains and abilities that heal based on damage dealt or restore SP based on SP drained.)
7) Twilight (Type: None, Passive. When your HP is 50% or less of your maximum, reduces the SP cost of Light and Dark abilities by 10, and if you start your turn with a Light or Dark cooldown of 2 or less, it is cleared.)
8) Exorcism (Type: Light, 25 SP. Only affects enemies weak to Light. 10-100 Power attack, based on the target's current HP (more HP = more Power). Cannot miss. Cooldown: Light (4))


Name : Fearsome Charlie
Level: 20
MaxHP: 77
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 14
Magic   : 64
Vitality: 18
Agility : 24
Cunning : 30

Immune: Body Mind Matter
Resist: Ice
Weak  : Electricity Light

Abilities Known:
1) Mind Reader (Type: Mind, Passive. Increases accuracy and evasion by 13% versus all opponents. (Bonuses are affected by Mind resistance.))
2) Innocence (Type: Mind, Passive. Increases offense, defense, accuracy, and evasion by 33%, and status accuracy and status resistance by 16%, versus opponents at full HP. (Bonuses are affected by Mind resistance.))
3) Mind Howl (Type: Mind, 30 SP. 55 Power attack, enemies only. Cannot miss.)
4) Meditate (Type: Healing, 0 SP. Restores 10 SP. Cooldown: Cantrip (0))
5) Rain of Fire (Type: Fire, 30 SP. Attenuated 85 Power attack. Has a 35% chance to Ignite the targets, causing damage over a short duration.)
6) Vigorous (Type: None, Passive. Increases SP regeneration by 50%.)
7) Firestarter (Type: Fire, Passive. Increases your chance to apply Ignite by 50% of the original chance.)
8) Warmth (Type: Fire, Passive. Increases HP and SP regeneration based on the number of Ignited characters you can see (more characters = larger bonus, with diminishing returns.))


Name : Kuchisake
Level: 22
MaxHP: 94
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 35
Magic   : 16
Vitality: 32
Agility : 35
Cunning : 42

Immune: Body
Weak  : Electricity Light

Abilities Known:
1) Haunt (Type: Dark, 25 SP. Must target an enemy. Warps you adjacent to the enemy, and has a 70% chance to delay the enemy's next turn. This is not considered a movement ability. Free action. Cooldown: Dark (4))
2) Throat Slash (Type: Slash, 15 SP. 70 Power attack. Has a 50% chance to inflict Mute, which prevents the use of non-physical abilities.)
3) Madness Glare (Type: Mind, 25 SP. 70% chance to inflict Panic on enemies, causing their actions to sometimes be randomized. Cooldown: Presence (9))
4) Bravado (Type: Mind, Reactive. Resets your Presence cooldown when an attack reduces your health to 50% or less. Cooldown: Bravado (1))
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------



--==== Recent Messages ====--

 SonVomitface falls asleep!
 The bandit hits your nero.
 Your nero gestures at your kuchisake.
 Your kuchisake will regenerate longer!
 You and one of your allies are in danger!
 Using Materia Siphon...
 Aim within the possible target area using
 movement keys. Press Enter to execute, Escape to
 cancel.
 Nevermind then.
 Using heal stone...
 Aim within the possible target area using
 movement keys. Press Enter to execute, Escape to
 cancel.
 Nevermind then.
 Using calm card...
 Calm Card can only be aimed at yourself. Press
 Enter to execute, Escape to cancel.
 You use the calm card.
 You unsummon your nero!
 You unsummon your kuchisake!
 You unsummon SonVomitface!
 Using Summon...
 Aim within the possible target area using
 movement keys. Press Enter to execute, Escape to
 cancel.
 You summon your kuchisake!
 The chachapuma's power returns to normal.
 Ninkasi gestures at the ogre.
 The ogre looks more powerful!
 The oni hits you. The ogre hits you.
 Using pure stone...
 Aim within the possible target area using
 movement keys. Press Enter to execute, Escape to
 cancel.
 You use the pure stone.
 Your kuchisake wakes up.
 Your kuchisake blinks towards Ninkasi.
 Ninkasi staggers.
 Your kuchisake slashes Ninkasi.
 The chachapuma lobs a stone at your kuchisake.
 The chachapuma hits your kuchisake.
 The oni hits you.
 Your relic struggles to keep you alive!
 Ninkasi hits your kuchisake.
 The bandit hits you.
 Your relic struggles to keep you alive!
 Your nero is no longer regenerating.
 The ogre hits you.
 You die...



--==== Recently Slain Allies ====--

Name : Anzu
Level: 17
MaxHP: 85
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 24
Magic   : 34
Vitality: 34
Agility : 24
Cunning : 19

Resist: Fire Ice Electricity
Weak  : Light

Abilities Known:
1) Leap Attack (Type: Slash, 20 SP. Must target a character. Leap to the target with an 85 Power attack. Inflicts Stun, causing the target to miss their next turn. Cooldown: Charge (8))
2) Feral Claw (Type: Slash, 5 SP. 70 Power attack.)
3) Fire Breath (Type: Fire, 20 SP. Attenuated 0-85 Power attack, based on the user's SP (max SP = 85 Power). Has a 35% chance to Ignite the targets, causing damage over a short duration. Cooldown: Breath (4))
4) Acid Breath (Type: Matter, 20 SP. Attenuated 0-85 Power attack, based on the user's SP (max SP = 85 Power). Has a 70% chance to inflict Melting, causing damage over time. Cooldown: Breath (5))
5) Dragon Soul (Type: None, Passive. Your abilities that use your current SP to determine their effect use your maximum SP instead.)
6) Oppressor (Type: Dark, Passive. Increases defense by 25% against enemies with lower HP. (Bonus is affected by Dark resistance.))
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Banshee
Level: 18
MaxHP: 60
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 11
Magic   : 51
Vitality: 22
Agility : 22
Cunning : 34

Immune: Body Matter
Resist: Slash Impact Pierce Ice
Weak  : Electricity

Abilities Known:
1) Mind Howl (Type: Mind, 30 SP. 55 Power attack, enemies only. Cannot miss.)
2) Devotion (Type: Healing, 25 SP. 60-150 Power heal, based on your remaining HP (less HP = higher Power).)
3) Share Pain (Type: Mind, Passive. Your Mind attacks deal 0-50% more damage based on your current health (less health = more damage).)
4) ------------
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Pele
Level: 19
MaxHP: 87
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 17
Magic   : 56
Vitality: 26
Agility : 26
Cunning : 20

Immune: Fire
Resist: Electricity
Weak  : Ice

Abilities Known:
1) Flame Arrow (Type: Fire, 20 SP. 85 Power attack. Has a 35% chance to Ignite the target, causing damage over a short duration.)
2) Rain of Fire (Type: Fire, 30 SP. Attenuated 85 Power attack. Has a 35% chance to Ignite the targets, causing damage over a short duration.)
3) Firestarter (Type: Fire, Passive. Increases your chance to apply Ignite by 50% of the original chance.)
4) Warmth (Type: Fire, Passive. Increases HP and SP regeneration based on the number of Ignited characters you can see (more characters = larger bonus, with diminishing returns.))
5) Alluring Veil (Type: Mind, Reactive. 10% chance to Charm adjacent characters that deal damage to you, turning them against their allies.)
6) Vigorous (Type: None, Passive. Increases SP regeneration by 50%.)
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Nokken
Level: 18
MaxHP: 80
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 25
Magic   : 25
Vitality: 22
Agility : 31
Cunning : 37

Resist: Mind
Weak  : Electricity Matter

Abilities Known:
1) Vise (Type: Matter, 20 SP. 55 Power attack. Has a 70% chance to inflict Held, which reduces accuracy, evasion, and movement speed (can stack three times.) Cannot miss.)
2) Writhing Mass (Type: Matter, 30 SP. 55 Power attack. Has a 50% chance to inflict Held, which reduces accuracy, evasion, and movement speed (can stack three times.) Cannot miss.)
3) Choke (Type: Body, 10 SP. Must target a Held character. 20-60 Power attack based on how Held the target is (20 per stack.) Delays the target's next turn, and adds 2 turns of Breath cooldown. Cannot miss. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (3))
4) Short Jaunt (Type: None, 10 SP. Warp to a random nearby position you can see. This is not considered a movement ability.)
5) ------------
6) ------------
7) ------------
8) ------------


Name : Mindbender Mummy
Level: 20
MaxHP: 98
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 14
Magic   : 32
Vitality: 44
Agility : 14
Cunning : 46

Immune: Mind
Resist: Body Light Dark
Weak  : Fire Electricity

Abilities Known:
1) Fester Touch (Type: Dark, 25 SP. 70 Power attack, followed by a 105 Power attack dealt as MaxHP damage that cannot reduce MaxHP below the target's current HP.)
2) Wiggling Mass (Type: Matter, 25 SP. 40 Power attack. Has a 50% chance to inflict Held, which reduces accuracy, evasion, and movement speed (can stack three times.) Cannot miss.)
3) Mind Scream (Type: Mind, 25 SP. 40 Power attack, enemies only. Cannot miss.)
4) Meditate (Type: Healing, 0 SP. Restores 10 SP. Cooldown: Cantrip (0))
5) Muddle (Type: Mind, 30 SP. 70% chance to inflict Panic, causing the target's actions to sometimes be randomized.)
6) Vile Dance (Type: Body, 20 SP. 85% chance to apply Infection to enemies, which prevents most HP and SP recovery. Also considered a movement ability. Cooldown: Breath (4))
7) Hysteria (Type: Mind, 20 SP. Must target a Panicked character. 70% chance to inflict Panic on an enemy near the target. Free action. Cooldown: Cantrip (5))
8) Alluring Veil (Type: Mind, Reactive. 10% chance to Charm adjacent characters that deal damage to you, turning them against their allies.)


Name : Blessed Ruhin
Level: 16
MaxHP: 75
MaxSP: 100

Strength: 10
Magic   : 21
Vitality: 26
Agility : 34
Cunning : 39

Immune: Body Matter
Resist: Mind
Weak  : Electricity

Abilities Known:
1) Calm (Type: Healing, 15 SP. Removes Stun, Sleep, Panic, and Charm.)
2) Blessweaver (Type: Buff, Passive. Reduces the SP cost of Buff abilities by 5, to a minimum of 0.)
3) Might (Type: Buff, 10 SP. Improves offense by 25%.)
4) Protect (Type: Buff, 10 SP. Improves defense by 25%.)
5) Dark Omen (Type: Dark, 15 SP. 85% chance to inflict Pariah, causing the target's allies to take damage when the target does (excluding reactions).)
6) Slow (Type: Debuff, 25 SP. 70% chance to reduce speed by 33%.)
7) Rabblerouser (Type: Buff, Passive. Abilities that increase the offense, defense, accuracy, evasion, or speed of allies also accelerate their next turn if they are not Shocked, Stunned, or Sleeping.)
8) Meditate (Type: Healing, 0 SP. Restores 10 SP. Cooldown: Cantrip (0))


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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby Ferret » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:10 am

Joe: I'll do a pass on the Matter modifiers, but some of those things are by design. I don't necessarily give every passive to every Tier, and sometimes I bring back single target versions of status conditions in Tier 3 abilities. After all, a solidly reliable, cheap version of a status applier can be useful even (maybe especially!) during the late game. I went ahead and fixed Stone Touch, you were correct about that. I'll take a look at Violent too.

Medusa/Furious was just RNG funny, but weighted RNG funny: Medusa's modifier has a *very* high chance to give you one of four Stone-causing abilities, and is somewhat likely to give you a second.

Good luck with March, and see you in April! :D Thanks for the reports and help testing the Matter build, it's greatly appreciated.


Wiz: :( I wonder if Kuchisake might have tripped over my attempt to reduce the AI's willingness to use low accuracy abilities... will have to take another look at that.

Turdak and Mordecai haven't changed that I remember, but I'm rarely sorry to hear a unique is behaving badly. It beats the alternative (i.e.: Adria) :D

Yeah, between the ability slot requirements, the on the spot setup, I'm okay with where the Melt-boosted drains are, for the moment. They're pretty nice when you get them working, but if they weren't people'd just stick with the Body ones all the time. I think the level things are at now, people will feel like it's a tough choice, and that's the idea. :D

Thank you for the report, and for all the testing help. :D
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Ferret
 
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Re: Matter Build Testing

Postby Ferret » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:48 am

Whew, finally able to get back at it. Sorry I've been extra busy lately.

I think what I'm going to try for Affection/Devotion is having their evaluation penalized if they're being used sub-optimally. (i.e.: Using Devotion at very high health, using Affection at very low health.) This will only occur in cases where a life is not on the line: in a do or die moment, it'll do whatever it has to do to save that life.
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