Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby ayayaya » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:55 pm

If I have multiple veils, in what order are they applied? Also, are physical veils supposed to not proc when you are stunned, but elemental veils can proc?
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Ferret » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:06 am

Hmm... an interesting question!

The code registers reactions by going through your ability set, so the correct answer should be "in whatever order they were in, from 1 to 8, the last time reactions were updated." HOWEVER! Each reaction triggers a "use ability" result... which are processed in "first in, last out" order, so the actual correct answer is "in whatever order they were in, from 8 to 1, the last time reactions are updated."

Reactions are updated fairly frequently, so this will usually be correct. However, note that re-ordering your ability hotkey buttons does not trigger such an update, so doing so may not have an immediate effect on the order they are applied in.

That said, reactions are updated fairly often, so the de-sync from moving abilities around will not last long... and I will probably force a re-check after swapping abilities just so that this little wrinkle vanishes. :P
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Gaswafers » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:38 pm

Are "instantly kill" abilities treated as a damaging attack when they go through, or are they a special case? I want to know if they are boosted by OffenseUP and Demon's/Exorcist's Mien, and if the Miens apply to Hand of Light/Night. I guess it would be relevant to Reaper's Mien too.
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Ferret » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:02 am

They are indeed treated as damaging attack when they go through: all relevant buffs/debuffs/passives should apply, and if they don't (and the description or mechanics doesn't specifically explain why they don't), that would be a bug.
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Gaswafers » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:18 am

How much damage do they do? Like, how much life will I get from Reaper's Mien if I kill something with Snuff Out. Do they do damage based on missing HP, so lower HP enemies would give you more life back?
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Ferret » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:30 am

Instant kill effects work, more or less, like powerful attacks that get ignored if they aren't fatal. They have a set amount of damage (modified by all the usual modifiers to damage, including a moderate random element), and this is checked against the target's HP.

If the target would die from the damage, the damage is dealt. Otherwise, nothing happens.

The amount of damage dealt is not actually affected by missing HP: rather, the missing HP stats in the descriptions give you a rough idea of how much damage they deal. Whether the target had 1 HP or 50 HP left, if an instant death effect lands, they will take the amount of damage it was trying to inflict. Most instant death effects are fairly powerful, by the by, usually equivalent to at least a 100 Power attack.

I'm starting to think I should just word these closer to normal attacks though.

i.e.: 100 Power attack, but only deals damage if it will kill the target.

That would be more consistent with other damage wording, but would probably be less useful for determining how to use them properly. On the other hand, I could keep both wordings, but that might get clunky. Hmm...
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Gaswafers » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:56 am

I thought they dealt maxHP-based damage? That's what the description lead me to believe.
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Ferret » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:03 am

That's also true: apologies, I saw "HP" in your post rather than "maxHP" and kind of skipped over that point. The damage is max HP based, but it is not based on missing HP... missing HP just helps it work by making it more likely the damage it tries to deal is enough to be fatal.

If I changed the descriptions to read 100 Power attack or what not, I'd have to change the mechanic to actually be a 100 Power attack too... which, honestly, is not that big of a change. Most enemies don't vary much for their level on HP, and even when they do, the differences this causes are usually obscured beneath the much larger factors present in damage calculations (Magic stat, resistances, etc)
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Gaswafers » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:23 am

This type of attack is the only kind of effect that requires you to think about exactly how much damage it deals, so using power could be problematic, because the conversion of power into damage is an arcane process only known to the AI. Here's a simple solution for wording e.g. Snuff Out:
Attempts to randomly deal between 20% and 30% of the target's max HP as damage. Fails if the damage wouldn't be lethal.
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Re: Combat Mechanics: Power, Damage, Healing

Postby Ferret » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:27 am

That... actually is a pretty good point, and also a pretty good swing at a new wording there. :D I'll think about it a bit more, but unless I come up with some issue with it, I think I will switch to that. Thanks. :D
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