Heroism gives too much defense

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Heroism gives too much defense

Postby RolaRoul » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:05 pm

In my experience, demons like Aeras, Python and any others that have "Becomes more powerful until link succeeds" in their linking are vastly more difficult than any other demons to recruit, to an unfair degree. I think this is in large part due to the 200% defense bonus that Heroism grants. I think this is bad for the game for a number of reasons:
-Recruiting these demons is dependent on party composition to a degree much greater than most other forms of recruitment. It's virtually impossible to deal enough damage in X number of turns unless you have two attackers that can target the demon's weaknesses, or one attacked that can hit weakness and some really strong attackers.
-The punishment for failing these links in high. The linked-with demon keeps their Heroism buff if you fail with them, which means you still have to beat a super-tough enemy on top of any other penalties for failing the link.
-A number of demons are almost never used. I'll admit that I don't have any statistics to back this up, but I've almost always failed at these links when I've tried them, and it's gotten to the point where I don't even try to recruit them unless I have a couple weakness-hitting demons.
-I've had situations where I've been able to beat heroism-buffed demons without much trouble; but that's because I had strong defenses. Python comes to mind; I've had it happen to me a couple of times where I've put in the work of getting rid of his minions first, then putting out a weakness-hitting demon, a healer, and another heavy hitter, and tried the recruitment... and failed because he takes so little damage from my attacks that I can't come close to beating him in 10 turns, even though I'm not in any danger of dying. After the link fails, I then began the slow process of whittling him down, and eventually beating him without ever being in any major danger. Situations like these are really frustrating and boring, and I feel like they represent the abnormally high difficulty of "beat this Heroism-buffed demon" links.
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Re: Heroism gives too much defense

Postby Ferret » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:38 am

This might end up being addressed with the Experimental Build, but even if not, I'll probably ease up on the time limits a little bit for heroes. I want them to be hard, but it does seem like I've been seeing quite a bit less of them lately. :) Thanks for the feedback. :D
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Re: Heroism gives too much defense

Postby Bormoth » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:47 pm

My opinion heroism, is a bit of cheap in most cases what happens the stat boosts are so big that even concentrated debuffers fail 70% debuffs 40% or more of their time, while heroic characters manage to put, debuff all the time. They seem eveade too often, but probably most annoying is indeed you tend just to chip at those target even if you have their weakness, 3HP at a time in some cases, 3HP out of 50-60, add good evasion to it and you have long boring battles for 60+ turns in some cases where heroic targets have big enough strength.
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Re: Heroism gives too much defense

Postby Remora » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:37 pm

As far as I can care at the moment, Python and Miochaoin aren't too bad to link with. Python is very easy to defeat with two or more fire/ice dart throwers; Fotia are common around where he spawns, and their high damage output are good against it. Miodchaoin is a bit tougher because he only has one weakness and that weakness lacks heavy-hitting attacks for when you meat him, but with enough general heavy-hitters he can be defeated; he only has resistance to body attacks and that type is usually more about status effects than dealing damage. If you're lucky enough to get a shoggoth before meeting him, then it can help a lot with the link, too.
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