Corpses are OP

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Corpses are OP

Postby oneeyedjoe » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:29 pm

90% of my runs end because corpses spawn up to 8 demons around me. Even if they all have sleep/panic/charm effect on them, it usually doesn't last for too long and often enough one of them has calm anyway. You can consider this as a whine, but I think that it's a bit unfair. I am still not very good at this game, but I have a couple of wins under my belt. I understand that corpses are supposed to be risky to search, but relic wraiths already can spawn from corpses, I think that makes them risky enough. Also random demons from corpses usually have their level a bit higher than their default level.
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby Ferret » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:45 pm

There's no such thing as whining. :P Feedback is feedback. I know roguelike devs have a reputation for being evil, and I'm probably not an exception... but, I still have a certain goal in mind for the level of challenge Demon provides, and I do want to know about and fix it if it goes over that.

Besides, as it happens, I agreed with you even before you posted. :P I already plan on making some small adjustments downward in corpse difficulty in the upcoming build. I still want them to be quite dangerous... but I agree that they've gotten slightly meaner than I intended.

Main things that will probably change (some or all of the below):
1) Prevent excessively high level "rare" monsters from a level from being among the corpse spawns. This one is the most likely to happen.
2) Not going to let any of them move before the player anymore.
3) Possibly will reduce the number of demons that spawn by 1... less certain about this one. If I don't do this, I will probably do something else that reduces general difficulty instead, like reducing how well corpse demons' levels scale up to yours.
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby oneeyedjoe » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:09 pm

The 1st one is actually really important. I am tired of being destroyed by lvl 16 raijus when I am just lvl 5. And one thing about scaling demons. You know how consume/recycle upgrades work, but I'll say it anyway. When you capture and delete overleveled demon, it gives you way better bonuses compared to default level demon. For example, you get 420C in comparison to 22C for lvl4 demon that should be lvl1 by default. That's the only reason why I didn't complain about corpses before :lol:
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby Ferret » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:46 pm

Yeah, I'm generally okay with that since both sources of scaled demons (enemy summoners including relic wraiths, and corpses) are quite deadly. :)
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby Gaswafers » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:20 am

Could multiple raiju pop out of a corpse in Ccoa's sanctum? I know a single one popping out is guaranteed death, I want to know if you can end up in a extra super plus dead situation too.

Anyway, glad to hear that's getting fixed. I only had the pleasure of encountering Ccoa corpse raiju one time.
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby Ferret » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:08 am

Happily, the answer is "almost no": corpse monster packs were designed to imitate "wimpy enemy summoner" groups, and followed some of the same rules, most notably, the one about not having 2 of the same monster. As part of the "wimpy" bit, they don't get to bend that rule even for a modified demon as most summoners do. (Some of the other parts of "wimpy" are that they have only a lowish chance of modified demons, usually having no more than 1 or 2, and never use Copy Ability... that last is less out of wimpy consideration and more out of wanting to limit the number of encounters where the player is obligated to check each foe's abilities, even if they look familiar. Of course, they also aren't allowed to have uniques.)

The relatively rarity is because the corpse code uses, if in a different way, the spawn tables for the level: thus, since Raiju are a relatively rare encounter normally, they are also relatively rare as part of a corpse spawn.

Where the "almost no" comes in is because while the same super rare high level monster can't show up twice, there's nothing stopping two different ones from showing up.
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby wizzzargh » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:25 pm

I'm really surprised people have such trouble with the Ccoa Raiju, but then again I'm not sure if I've ever met one in a big corpse encounter.
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby Ferret » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:34 pm

It'd depend on what you ran into it with probably... but a Raiju w/ 4 other at-level guys from that area could definitely be a huge problem, that'd effectively be a double encounter by the standards of that area.
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Re: Corpses are OP

Postby Remora » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:27 am

That first change idea is fair to me. Raiju aren't too bad to deal with alone in Ccoa's sanctum, but if they show up from a corpse they can be a lot of trouble. There's not that many other sort of corpse encounters I can think of like that, but it's fair enough.
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